Kristi Kennebrew: [00:00:00] It was me being an ally to the community of like people that were underrepresented. Why people who have never been reached out to someone before, because maybe they didn't go to the perfect school. Like they didn't go to UT or, you know, they didn't have a great GPA. A lot of those candidates get overlooked when it comes to big tech.

Hey, everyone.

David Fano: Welcome to nonlinear a podcast about the decisions that shape our careers. I'm Dave, Fanno the founder and CEO of teal and the host of the show. If you're enjoying the conversation on this episode, please make sure to subscribe, share, and rate us wherever you're listening to the show. It really helps shine a light on these amazing careers and increases the chances of us learning from each other.

Again, thank you so much. And let's jump into this amazing career story. Hey everyone. Thanks for joining today. We are with Kristi Kennebrew, and rather than me do some sort of funky synthesis of her career, I'd rather we hear it from her directly. So Kristi, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Kristi Kennebrew: [00:01:00] Of course, my name is Kristi . I am a talent sourcer at Microsoft and my goal, my passion, my mission is to help people land their dream jobs, whether that's software engineering or if this in recruiting or anywhere with.

David Fano: Awesome. We're going to focus on you today since you helped so many people land these awesome jobs, but you know, being in the talent space is such an interesting space to be in, especially in, you know, in these days.

But we'd like to kick off this show with the same question. When in your life. And kind of like what was going through your mind when you first started to think about your career? And then the way we define that as like real deliberate action towards the thing that would like provide for your livelihood, you're like, I'm going to get paid for this and like what kind of actions and what kind of, when was that in your life?

You said, okay, this is the thing I.

Kristi Kennebrew: Yeah. I think the first time I started to think about those types of things was when I was in high school, I was playing sports and I was like, Ooh, I really want to get into sports. Like I know, like they make a [00:02:00] lot of money and this is going to be fun. And so I decided to go to.

For kinesiology. So I was like, okay, like this is going to take me into the right place. At the time I was thinking, I was like, okay, I really want to go into like hospitality and for a team or so I'm from Dallas, Texas. And I went to UT, you know, cause I had a big sports team, big football team. And I was like, okay, this has got to be perfect.

I got there. And I, you know, I kind of realized it was kind of going through the steps. I really wanted to go into this program called sports management. I really want it to do that, but you know, as I'm going through the curriculum, I noticed like you have to be really good economics and I didn't pass economics the first time I felt economics to get into that program.

And then the second time I got a D so I wasn't able to get into the program. So it just kind of like blew everything off really. And so I went into health and then realized, you know, as I'm getting closer to [00:03:00] graduation, It's not really money in entry-level kinesiology jobs. Right. And so that's when I started to like, look at what are other people doing?

Like where are recent grads going? And that's how I got into sales. I went to a job. I saw that Oracle was hiring or sales and that everybody was going, they started off paying 50 K and you get bonuses. And I was like, wow, this is the most I've ever seen someone entry level out of college, get for money for a salary.

Everything else was like 30 K, 20 K everything within sports was, you know, pretty low. And so I was like, okay, I'm doing it. Didn't have any background in sales. Didn't know anything about sales, right. As I Ruben everyone going that way. And so I decided to go that way as well. So that's kind of how things switched from kinesiology.

David Fano: Sales, that's such a good story. Okay. So kind of like opportunity pulled to you, which [00:04:00] I think is, you know, the reason a lot of us make career decisions, but how'd you do that? I think a lot of people wrestle with kind of repackaging their skills. Maybe you get a little bit. Leeway fresh out of school because companies are more willing to just send like bet on talent and less hard skills.

But what were some of the things that worked for you in that time to be able to make that shift? Yeah,

Kristi Kennebrew: definitely networking. I would say. And I do agree like coming straight out of college, that was kind of one of the things they were looking for. Very entry level, very grad students. It was a college program.

So we went through, they flew us out to San Jose and they put us through this whole program where they teach. How to sale basically have to sell Oracle style. And so I think that that was kind of like one of the biggest things of how I got into that program, but also just networking. I was able to go to the career fairs and talk to some of the older students that had already started working there that had graduated in the class before then.

And, you know, they put me up on [00:05:00] games. I also did like different career services and career fairs around campus while I was there as well. Just telling them more about the financial aid office. But no word out there.

David Fano: All right. So I have a feeling that might have informed what you do next, but not, not good interviewer style to lead the guests.

But so after Oracle, you, you made a move, right? A, a bit of a pivot. Can, can you talk us through kind of like what, what led to that, you know, and your process for making a bit of a shift?

Kristi Kennebrew: Of course. Yeah. I would say it was definitely one of the biggest moves of my career. I was working. Full-time at Oracle there for two and a half years.

And I realized like, oh, this is kind of getting old to like a sales can be tough. Sales can be a tough environment. And so I started to notice that people were leaving one over to Google on a country. And of recruiting contract. And I was like, what are these people doing? Like, what are they like, how are they getting over there?

So I started to reach [00:06:00] out to them, people that I saw that were literally working with me the two days before and have switched over to Google. I'm like, Hey, like, what is your process? So I'm reaching out to them on LinkedIn and they're like telling me, oh, reach out to this person and reach out to this person.

And so that's when I started reaching. And I decided I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna use my transferable skills to go over to recruiting. Now that didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Right. I did an interview for contract that role and I didn't get it. And I was like, oh, well, uh, like I feel like I qualified, like why didn't I get it?

And so I, as I started to reach out to some more people and ask them about the interview questions and stuff like that, I started to realize like, I have to show what it is that I'm doing now. That I can bring over to the recruiting role and Excel at like one of those skills that I could bring over to the, to the recruiting role from sales.

And so I started to write those down and I started to think about those and I kind of switched up my resumes to kind of show those main skills. And I, like, I picked three, I was like, [00:07:00] let me pick three. That sounded really good that I can switch over. And. And so I added those to my resume and I started talking about those in the conversations.

And so I interviewed for Google four times for a contract one time for a full-time role. Right. And finally, the fifth time I landed on the contract of this, just to let people know, like, This wasn't just like a smooth process for me. Right. I had to kind of go through these steps of like listening to the different questions.

They were asking me out of the four interviews that I had, the five interviews that I had, like, what type of questions were you looking for? What type of answers? So I think that they were looking for, and then just kind of write those down and formulate the best way that I could represent myself transitioning from a totally different field, even though it had lots of similarities.

I had to like. What are the things that I could really bring over to shine and the new role. And so that was kind of like the biggest thing, leaving a full time sales role to do a contracted role at Google, but definitely one of my best moves within my [00:08:00] career.

David Fano: So for those that don't know, I mean, can you explain a little bit of the difference between contract and in.

Yeah, it's a really interesting way to get into companies, but I don't think a lot of people kind of know that this is a route. Yeah,

Kristi Kennebrew: definitely. And I've, I've always tried to explain to people the best way that I can. So with a contract, basically, you're not working for that company directly. You're working for a staffing agency.

And so I worked for a staffing agency that paid me for my paycheck and provided my. But the actual work that I was doing was for Google. So the candidates I was reaching out to the systems that I was reaching out, that I was using to reach out where with Google. And so you work with all kinds of Google's employees of the contractors of the full-time roles, the teams were mixed.

So you had contractors, you have full-time within, but basically you are paycheck is coming from, um, a staffing agency. Which Google hires. Two staff, people temporarily. Most of the contracts are one year. You [00:09:00] may get contracts that are for six months, but it is a really good entry way into the company. It allows you to learn more about that company first or.

I think it's really important to know how companies treat their contractors. Right. And then it gives you time to see if you're able to learn this role. And if you like that role, I didn't know if I was going to like recruiting. Right. I didn't know. And so taking on that kind of. Allowed me to a, get a good company under the, you know, underneath my name and also learn if I liked recruiting or not turns out I really did.

So I'm very happy about it. Yeah.

David Fano: The recruiting and sales are so similar. Right. And it's such an interesting, if you were to like, look on paper, like the things you need to know how to do, I would say it's like a 90%. Similarity, except like one uses an ATS. The other one uses a CRM, you know, but there's so, so similar and you've got to know the right words.

Right. You know, like a funnel is like, you know, it's very salesy term. There's probably like a [00:10:00] pipeline is for recruiting, you know, and things like that. So when you were. Applying for the role. Did you know in advance that it would have been placement at Google?

Kristi Kennebrew: Yes, I did. I did some of the staffing agencies.

They don't directly say what company they work for. A lot of the, a lot of the staffing agencies do have multiple big tech companies that they're working for. But you may get a little couple of hints whenever they post. They may say something about the world's largest search engine or world's largest social media company, something like that.

At the end of the day. I didn't know. Like they all like, let you know, whenever they get on the phone with you, like what company this is for.

David Fano: And for almost like for all intensive purposes, you're a Google employee, right? Like you were going to Google's campus, you were on site with other Google employees.

So you really got to almost like test drive the culture and what it was like to work. Yeah,

Kristi Kennebrew: definitely. So I didn't get all of the Google perks, but it, you know, if you got the, you got a badge, your badge did look a little different. There was a couple of differences, you know, I didn't [00:11:00] get all of the Google benefits or the healthcare.

All of my health care was through a, who is my staffing agency, but yeah, I got the, I got the free snacks. I got to work in the office. I got to walk on the treadmill and work. I got the be part of the nap pads to go into the net pads and stuff. There was a lot of perks that came with it. It almost felt like I was a Google employee.

I just, I just know it wasn't on my paycheck. And

David Fano: now that you're in deep into recruiting and what, we'll talk a little bit more about your next role, but how do you think about now? Like what you list on your resume

Kristi Kennebrew: as far as like company, you

David Fano: work like the company. How do you think about like what company you list?

Cause I see a lot of job seekers are like, oh, you know, I would put a deco as the company. I'm pretty sure on yours, you put Google and then, you know, you're not like you put like a subtext, like as a contractor, but you know, seeing that Google name on your resume carries a lot of weight, like way more than, or I would say more on top of the paycheck you received.

So like [00:12:00] almost like what advice would you have for people as they consider something like this, given that your recruiter and your. You know, candidates all the time.

Kristi Kennebrew: Yeah. And so these staffing agencies know, they know what the, what the highlight is about working for a big tech company. And so they do have certain rules around it.

You do have to like state that you are a contractor like on LinkedIn, you do have to put it. So deco was really good. I think they're the main staffing agency for Google. And so they have their own little. Symbol. Right. So I has Google via a deco, or you could put the actual global symbol and then you could put, you know, contract at via deco or, you know, whatever contract, the agency who are working on, but it is.

So it is like, you can't say that you worked for Google and you didn't work for Google without putting that you are a contractor. So that's a really big deal that they speculate. Like they, they make sure you do, you put on all your resume and on your LinkedIn for

David Fano: sure. But that is a great perk. Right.

Like the different hiring process it's, you know, be still [00:13:00] get access. And then, I mean, a lot of people, I would imagine go from contractor to in-house. I mean, I shouldn't say a lot, I don't know the numbers empirically, but I would imagine that's not an uncommon

Kristi Kennebrew: path. It's definitely not uncommon. It can be tough.

Sometimes. It's all like the draw, the look is there, headcount, is there, you know, is there room for you? And so that's pretty much what it is.

David Fano: All right. So you, you did that for a bit. I would imagine the contract ended, but now you sort of found this new career path that I would imagine you didn't know much about, and you help some people with their careers and career services.

But now you're like doing this full time. What kinds of things were you seeing? About just kind of like how you were feeling about your work that, that helped you understand that you really liked doing this and you wanted to do more of it. I think

Kristi Kennebrew: my biggest thing when I was at Google was understanding that I was helping people on a larger scale at the end of the day, some of the people that I've worked with, especially when it came to diversity and inclusion, this was their first time making any type of money like [00:14:00] this.

This is, you know, they're the first person in their family that will be. Um, six figures. And so that was a really big deal, right? This is the, sometimes for some of my candidates, this was the first time they ever interviewed for a big tech company, like, oh, Christie, you reached out to me, but you know what?

I've never had anybody reach out to me from a big tech company. And so I think for me, yeah, Me being an ally to the community of like people that were underrepresented, like people that have never been reached out to someone before, because maybe they didn't go to the perfect school. Like they didn't go to UT or, you know, they didn't have a great GPA.

A lot of those candidates get overlooked when it comes to big tech companies. Right. I made it a thing to like, make sure that I look for candidates based off of the minimum qualifications. And I think that's what kind of drove me, um, really far within my career and kind of started like I source off of minimum qualifications and not necessarily the fine tune features of.

David Fano: Oh, I [00:15:00] love that. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I don't think a lot of people understand even the way the qualifications come about within a company. And that's like, that seems like a very strategic decision on your part to kind of like leverage the parameters of minimum qualification.

Kristi Kennebrew: Yeah. So literally the job descriptions that are posted on the, on the website, they have your minimum qualifications or your required qualifications, and then you have preferred all you need. To qualify for that job or to apply for that job is the minimum qualifications right now. It's always a plus. If someone has the preferred, if someone, you know, has extra, that's great.

That's amazing. But in order to truly qualify for the job and be put through the process, you just need to meet the minimum qualifications. Right. And so sometimes, you know, we were always looking for the candidate that. Above and beyond right there, it has all of these great skills, even more than the great skills, but you never know what a candidate could do if they just meet the [00:16:00] minimum qualifications.

Like, what else is it? Is that candidate not showing us? What else are they not able to highlight on their resume that we can figure. And is

David Fano: it, I mean, would you say most recruiters? I shouldn't generalize, like, but that is maybe it's a, it's a best practice to look for people that are in the preferred qualification category as well.

Yeah.

Kristi Kennebrew: So I wouldn't say so. I just think that everyone's looking for that unicorn. Everyone's looking for. Right then maybe not best practice, but we just want the best candidate for the job so that we're able to please everyone within the, within the company. And I think sometimes we miss out on people that appear just to have the minimum qualifications sometimes, and just giving those people a chance and being able to dig deeper and re like, just get on the phone call and talk to them, ask them about their experience.

Sometimes you'll realize that they don't have. These extras on their LinkedIn or on their resume. But when you talk to them, like they're talking to all about all the extra or the preferred [00:17:00] qualifications, right. And they just didn't know how to like, put that on their resume or how to like present that on their resume.

So

David Fano: it's a really interesting topic. Qualified versus presented qualifications. Right. And I think a lot of people conflate these things when they get like really mad at the resume and it's like, no, it's actually the criteria quite clear. It's like, you have a document to show what you're good at. And a company is telling you in a J D this is what I want.

If you've got those abilities list them, you know, but like a lot of people don't, and I think it's really incredible on your part. They're like, you know what, I'm going to get people to benefit. Um, because ultimately that didn't really behoove you, right? Like you're motivated to go hire the fastest way possible the most candidates through the pipeline as possible, but this kind of like belief in people and their kind of lack of understanding that it's not even a lack of.

It's like some people, a lot of people don't like to promote themselves. It feels icky, you know, and they're very humble and they're modest. And I would imagine [00:18:00] in an underrepresented crowd that might even be more than. Yeah,

Kristi Kennebrew: it's very tough. I just put myself in a position back where I didn't even know what I was doing.

I didn't know how to get into recruiting. I didn't know how to present my skills and myself, and I'm sure I had all of the transferable skills, but I didn't know how to, how to say that. I also didn't know how to put that on a resume. And so it took me some time to learn that and it took someone getting on the phone call with me.

It's kind of like pulling those out. Oh, so you do, you do. Like do outreaches, like you send emails to customers, so you can send emails to candidates and I'm like, oh yeah, I can do that. So, you know, it, it took someone helping me to pull that out and I just try to like, you know, do the same thing when it comes to my candidates, getting on the phone, like asking them about some of the detailed work that they do.

And I'm like, oh, so you do. Distributed systems and they're like, yeah, you know, I do like, I do that. I'm like, okay, cool. So you do qualify for the job. So you do qualify for the day. You do have the preferred qualifications. And so [00:19:00] that's, you know, this is how we go through, but to me, it's just giving back because I already, I know how it was.

And I try to make myself very relatable, especially when it comes to LinkedIn. And that's one of the things that promoted me to like, make the posts. Like I've been through this. I applied most, I had five interviews. Since over a hundred applications a week, you know, I didn't have a full-time job for a while.

It took me a minute to get my full-time role. I was doing contracts. I, you know, and so just being able to like show that cycle and be relatable and show people, like it's a way out of that eventually. And it, and you just have to have patience and then coming up with your top three transferable skills.

So whatever field that you're looking to get into, it's going to be.

David Fano: That's awesome. I love the story. All right. So you did the contract work at Google. You find a career that I would say for you almost sounds like it's in the calling category. Uh, you love it. It charges you up. I would imagine you love going to work most [00:20:00] days then what came next,

Kristi Kennebrew: next time, you know, it came to a point to where the contract was coming to an end and I needed to find something either another contract or go full time.

I actually had got. Um, by another staffing agency to do a contract at Microsoft and I was ready, I was like, okay. You know, like sound to make the next step. We're going to go to the next company. We'll have another company on our resume underneath. Our name is going to be great. And then three days before I was supposed to start, I believe it was the Friday.

I was supposed to start that next Monday. A recruiter from Microsoft in house reached out to me and I was like, Okay, cool. I'm supposed to be starting as a contractor. Is that gonna interfere with anything? It was like, you know, honestly, I'm not sure. Like we can just go through the process and I was like, that don't sound, that doesn't sound confident.

And so I actually told the staff at agency, I'm like, Hey, I'm not going to start. I don't, I don't recommend this practice like quitting before you start. But [00:21:00] I told the staff ages, I'm like, Hey, I'm not going to start. I'm actually going to give this a shot. Someone reached out full I'm going, gonna, I'm going to like put my eggs in that basket.

Right. Cause I believed in my skills and myself and I was just going to go from there. Of course they was, you know, kinda mad at me, but I was like, dude, I think this is the best thing for me. I still had like, uh, maybe like a month on my contract that Google and. It was fine. So I went through the process, you know, interview and they called you let me know, but I got the job, but I was just like so happy and just like, I couldn't believe it like me being patient me, you know, determining what felt right for me ended in a good way.

And this was my first. Full time, recruiting role, just being extremely blessed and extremely happy about the space that I've been in and understanding my progress and helping people to kind of get to that point as well.

David Fano: You know what that's amazing and what I love about it. I mean, there's so many things I love about that story [00:22:00] is.

I think there's a clear intentionality on your purpose. You know, I, I really believe in this idea of like manufacturing, look, I don't think we control it all, but we can definitely take actions that set us up for better things. And I think with the career, it's just like, how many of these like career seeds do you plant and some are going to sprout.

And so I feel like you had a clear intentionality into what you wanted to, you had, you had clarity on where your interests and abilities were and, and you bet on yourself. I would say, I think a lot of people will talk themselves out of not doing.

Kristi Kennebrew: Yes. And I tell people all the time just to be patient with the process.

And I think one thing is our generation has seen this big tech boom, right? Like everyone wants to get into tech, but they think it's that it's easy and it's not right. One of the things that. Uh, made it a point to kind of do is to kind of help people understand their transferable skills. So I got to get me hired Christy on six, talking on Instagram.

And what I do is I break down job descriptions. Right. I break them down and [00:23:00] help people to understand, like, you don't have to just have. Uh, background in recruiting, you can have a background in sales, lead generation, um, coordination. Um, and some people like they miss that when it comes to these, these job roles, like, oh, I don't qualify for that.

Like, there's Google. You gotta know how to recruit. Like know, like if you read the job description, it literally tells you under minimum qualifications. Cause you have to meet all the minimum qualifications that your. This, this or this. And so just kind of helping people to understand that, understand that it's going to be a process.

Your transferable skills are real when that you're able to slowly get into the field that you want to get into. I think the thing where people struggle is they don't know where they want to go. I talked to a lot of folks, a lot of my clients that I talked to her and I'm like, okay, you want to get into tech?

What area do you want? Oh, I just want to get into tech. No, no, no, no, no. What area of tech would you like to get into? Like what, what, what are you passionate about, right. Where do you think you can make the [00:24:00] most impact? And that's the question that they struggle with and it's like, I'm like, okay, well we need to do a little bit more research on what areas are available within tech so that we can help you get there and try and figure out what your transferable skills are.

David Fano: Again, it's funny how. I honestly, it's something I didn't have a lot of empathy for before starting teal, but I've just been lucky in that, like by choice or by forest, I just sort of, that's not something I ever paused to think about. I just sorta like, you know, what came I did or I'd keep pushing, but for a lot of folks, you know, it's not as clear to kind of note in today's day and.

From a skills and knowledge perspective, you can almost do anything, right? The knowledge is available. If you're willing to put in the time and energy, you know, extenuating circumstances aside, of course in not can't say that for everybody, but you know, the access to information I feel like is mostly available, but then even still choosing, like, what's the thing that charges me up is really.

Kristi Kennebrew: No. I definitely agree. I think the main question we need to ask ourselves are what are we passionate about? Are we passionate [00:25:00] about helping people? Are we passionate about, you know, starting programs, being a program manager, being able to see a program all the way through, you know, we passionate about being able to create different products.

Do we want to code and create these different products. So there's a large customer base can use, what are we passionate about? You know, that, that may take some time, like, that might take some time to understand and to get to know. But I think once you kind of do that, then you could move forward with, with everything else.

I talked to a lot of teachers that are looking to transition as well. And you know, they have passions about everything when it comes my mom's a teacher. So I was just like, they they're very passionate. The knowledge of other people. And so, you know, some, I always suggest like look into some of the jobs.

I always tell them, like, just go through the career side and just look and see what are some things that you may want to do. Don't look at the, the minimum qualifications just yet just look through and see, what [00:26:00] is this? What are some things that you may be really passionate about? And most of them come back and they want to do some type of learning and development, which is what they're already doing.

They're already very passionate about that. It was just don't want to be in the classroom anymore. That's one thing I would suggest to people just kind of scroll through the career sites of one of your favorite companies and see like, oh, like I would love to do that. I could really see myself doing that and then go from there.

See how you can use your, your skills that you have now to. So the skills that are on the job description.

David Fano: Yeah. That's a it's advice. We give folks all the time and it's tricky because people, when they see a job, they feel this like sense of like, I have to apply to it, but I'm going to miss it. And so it's just like, it's like, no, no, it's like career shopping.

You just put it in the shopping cart. You don't have to worry about buying it yet. You know? Exactly. Oh, very cool. And so, yeah. I think another thing that it seems like you're doing in your career, that people could learn from is you've started to invest in building a personal brand that, you know, I tell people that's a career asset that goes with you that belongs to you.

How do you think [00:27:00] about the work you're doing to build a personal

Kristi Kennebrew: brand? I love it so much. You know, I was very nervous about it at first. I was like, oh, this, this has gotta be a lot. Like I gotta be on social media all the time. Uh, but you know, At the end of the day, I started to get a really big following on LinkedIn.

And I'm like, you know, I come from an area where not everybody knows about LinkedIn. I know at first I didn't even know about LinkedIn and there's still a lot of people that don't know about LinkedIn don't have a LinkedIn. And so I decided to spread. I was like, okay, I'm gonna go on Instagram. I'm gonna start posting jobs there.

Tik TOK. I'm gonna start posting jobs there and just kind of see where it goes. And it definitely opened up a whole nother crowd of people that are used to those social media sites. And it's like now like, oh, okay. Now I realize like LinkedIn could be like a really good tool because there's all these jobs or, you know, I could just follow Christie.

I could follow, getmehiredkristi and just see these jobs here and go apply for [00:28:00] them. Right. Like I know that, oh, she, she just told me that I have the transferable skills. So do this, like my transferable skills, that real, like, let me just go apply. And people have reached out to me. I think the biggest thing for me is people reaching out to me like, oh Christie, thank you so much.

I got an interview. I have an interview in two days and I guess the most rewarding thing to know that me Christie as just like, as my personal brand has been able to kind of help people as well without. You know, any of like the big company name behind

David Fano: me. Yeah. I love it. Well, Christy, this is amazing. I think that there's so much to learn from your career journey and the things you're doing.

There's so many things you're doing, right. How can folks follow along? What are the various social channels that they can listen to you on and follow your amazing career

Kristi Kennebrew: journey? Awesome. Thank you so much. You can follow me on LinkedIn. So that is mostly where you're going to get all the Microsoft content.

And then, uh, for fun recruiting tips and, um, job searches, you can follow [00:29:00] me on Tik TOK and Instagram at get me hired

David Fano: Christy. I love it. We will link to those in the show notes, whether wherever you're watching or listening, but Christie, thank you so much for doing this. This was awesome. This was a really fun conversation.

I'm very excited for everyone to follow along with your tips and tricks as they go along with their career.

Kristi Kennebrew: Awesome. Thank you so much for having. All right.

David Fano: Awesome. That was so much fun. Thank you, Christie. Yeah, it

Kristi Kennebrew: was a lot of fun.

David Fano: And that's it for this episode of nonlinear. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe, share, and rate us wherever you're listening to the show, you can learn more about teal on our website, keel hq.com. That's teal like the color T E a L H q.com. Or follow us on social. At teal underscore HQ.

Thank you so much for joining us. And please tune back in to keep hearing about how we make the decisions that shape our career. The teal career paths podcast is produced by rainbow creative with senior producer, Matthew [00:30:00] Jones and editor and associate producer drew McDowall. You can find more information on them at rainbow creative dot C O.

Thanks again. We'll see you next time.