Lia Zneimer: [00:00:00] It was really tough to reconcile. Like this thing that I had poured all of my time and energy and passion into for 23 years. And to suddenly be like, wait, who am I, if I don't have this? And if this is not what I'm going to do professionally, what am I going to.

David Fano: All right. Well, thanks so much for joining Leah today. We're here with, uh, Leah's Zimmer. Uh, they see that right. Okay, that's good. Um, uh, Leah and I actually go back quite a bit. We worked together at we work, but we actually, I was telling someone on our team the other day that I could probably count on one hand, like the number of times we had one-on-one meetings.

So I'm actually super excited to have this conversation and learn a little bit more about your career, how you kind of got to where you are and some of the cool things that you've done along the way, but, uh, we'd love to kick it off with you telling us a little bit about your. [00:01:00]

Lia Zneimer: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me.

It's exciting to be here and it's super exciting to be part of the teal team officially. Now I've been a fan behind the scenes for such a long time. So this is an awesome new opportunity for 2022. Um, my name is. I grew up in Colorado though. My family is originally from upstate New York. So I was born out there, moved out to the mountains when I was a baby and grew up out here.

And I say here, because I'm currently based in Denver, so I will get to this in the podcast. I'm sure. But I had spent about 11 years in New York city after college and recently relocated back home. After well, during COVID really, it was sort of a COVID induced decision, something I'd been thinking about for awhile.

So back in my home state, um, but I went to college in Philadelphia. Um, I went to university of Pennsylvania and double majored in English and theater. [00:02:00] And then after college decided to pursue my dreams of auditioning professionally for theater in New York. So that was what brought me to New York city originally.

And then in the decade, after that things changed a million times as they are want to do. And that is essentially what brought me eventually out here to Colorado again. So come full circle.

David Fano: Amazing. Um, all right, cool. I already have so many questions. Um, so I, you know, I think we want to try to do in this podcast is talk about those, um, forks in the road, right?

Uh, cause our career either like it was presented to us or we created it, but there's these forks that present and we sort of choose a path and then, you know, you end up where you are and then you continue to iterate on your career. Um, so I'm kind of curious where. That original interest came. Right?

Cause I feel like one of the places where we start to shape our career, well, there's like one more little and [00:03:00] everyone asks you what you want to do when you grow up. So we'll ignore that for now. But you chose to study theater, right? There was an intent. There, there was an intention there. You could envision yourself doing that.

So I'd love to hear if you could even remember sometimes. Like what was the driving force for wanting to study that?

Lia Zneimer: So great question. I, for as long as I can remember, I've been super passionate about performing theater in. Regarding singing, acting, dancing. Uh, I would say that as a child, that was my primary interest, right.

Alongside reading and writing. So like my earliest memories were performing in our living room in front of family and friends in costumes, constantly listening to musical theater soundtracks. I come from a family that wasn't particularly. Musical theater focused per se, but everyone was very musical. My dad played several instruments and had a great voice.

My mom's always loved music. I feel like there was this sort of natural [00:04:00] appreciation for music in our household. And then that coupled with sort of this childhood creativity, when you have that space, Roam before the pressures of the outside world get in the way and sort of impose these ideas of what you quote unquote should be or who you should be.

Um, I think performing was just something I always loved. So we enrolled in dance classes when we were little, my sister and I both were very into dance, um, acting lessons. We spent our summers. Growing up, going to a performing arts camp in the Catskills in upstate New York, um, school theater, community theater, regional theater.

Um, and my parents were really supportive. They were definitely encouraging along the way. I had this theater passion on one side and then on the other side, Equally strong interest in reading, writing, um, word games, you know, anything related to sort of spelling. I thought spelling bees [00:05:00] were great. What kid is really into that.

But, um, I remember like as a kid, I would lock myself away in our guest room. We had our first family shared computer and I would sit and just write short stories for hours on end. And create newsletters for our family. Like no one wanted to read them. I might pay in hindsight, they were so patient with me.

Um, but I would create these newsletters about like all of the goings on in our community. I tried to create like a message board, but. Digital classrooms were first a thing. I tried to create like a digital classroom for my class, where we could post assignments and people could catch up on things they may have missed.

Again, like all these projects that no one really asked me to do. And no one really wanted to participate in. Um, as a little girl, I remember writing poetry about every. Teller of crayon in my Crayola box, like all with the same format of like burnt Sierra, you look like X, you smell like X, you taste like X.[00:06:00]

Um, so anyway, reading, writing, creative thinking, always a big, big part of my childhood, but in terms of theater, I knew just from an early age, that's where my heart was. And I really wanted to give that a shot professionally. So, you know, as we were attending this performing arts training program in the summers, a lot of my peers were applying for professional programs for M uh, BFA programs, very specific.

Theater training schools. Um, and my parents really encouraged me to think a bit more broadly than just the theater route. There's sort of this, like, just in case things don't work out mentality, which, um, you know, I, in hindsight really appreciate. I think I also grew up, um, in a very small town in the mountains.

We were like two and a half hours from the nearest city. And so getting to see theater was such a. It was such like a special, special occasion. And then as we grew up, like there were performances that would come to town and there were more theaters built [00:07:00] and more exposure. But I just had this vision in my mind.

Like I want to live in New York city and try out this life and just see if I can do it. So, um, we sort of compromised in terms of applying to colleges. It was also very dedicated to academics and knew that I wanted to be somewhere with a rigorous academic program in addition to a strong theater department.

So I wound up at the university of Pennsylvania in Philly, which was fantastic, very small, small theater department. Um, there were about seven of us in my year who were in the program. Um, but it was a wonderful blend. There was lots of overlap with the English classes. So we had the opportunity to study, um, theater from.

Literature perspective, as well as the physical practical perspective and to be involved on campus and several organizations performing, um, regularly each semester, and then studying abroad in London and getting to attend theater as part of the curriculum, which was a dream come [00:08:00] true. Um, so the interest was really always there.

And after graduation, My parents, um, agreed to sort of help me out financially for a bit. I got a job as a production assistant, working on a few off-Broadway shows and worked as a personal assistant to a few folks and then auditioned professionally for about a year and a half. Um, which was wonderful.

However, really stressful and exhausting. And I have so much respect for my actor, friends who stuck with it, but, um, you know, I was sort of like a big fish in a small pond. And then I was a small fish in an enormous pond. And I think it was really tough to reconcile, like this thing that I had poured all of my time and energy and passion into for 23 years.

And to suddenly be like, wait, who am I? If I. I don't have this. And if this is not what I'm going to do professionally, what am I going to do? And [00:09:00] I think that was a huge pivot point for me in terms of. I sort of went the opposite end of the spectrum and took a break from theater for a long time. And that I think I had a very black and white way of thinking about it, where I was like, either I'm going to do this professionally and be completely immersed or I'm not going to do it at all.

Um, and it was probably like eight years before I was able to find a balance that felt like a better

David Fano: let's talk about that because I think there's, yeah. I mean, we know the. There's so many factors, right? Like what, what we think society expects of us. What's a real job. You know, I had parents on the other end when I told them I wanted to be an artist and there was like, that's not a real job, um, for better or for worse.

Right. Based on how they came up and all those things, um, sounds like your parents were incredibly supportive, which is amazing. Um, But when you did hit that moment, right? You've got all these like emotional sunk costs, literal [00:10:00] costs. Um, and you kind of had to like, face that moment of, am I going to keep doing this kind of like what, what was going through your mind?

How did you think about it? How did you think about what you would do instead?

Lia Zneimer: Great question. It was really hard. There's no easy answer. And I, you know, to this day, I still sort of question every once in a while and like, did I make the right decision and switching gears? Like I definitely miss it to my core at moments.

Um, but I think from a personality perspective, I realized. Early on in the process that like as a professional actor, you really have to be your number one champion. You have to network super well. You have to be comfortable advertising yourself. Um, you have to be really willing to like, do anything you can to get your next role.

And, um, not necessarily in a bad way, just in a really [00:11:00] driven way. And I, which is just not at that place. Self promotion wise, where I was comfortable being my own. Number one advocate and really like fighting for that. I, I was still deeply, I think, insecure about the skillset ultimately, and I just wasn't comfortable being that pushy about it.

There was something inherently that just felt not like me. I'm also pretty compulsive and type a and I really didn't love not knowing like where the next gig was coming from or where the next audition was coming from. Or I really wanted more of a structure and more. Set of, you know, a sandbox to play in sort of, so I think also like the financial element tied into it, like I really wanted to find a path forward for myself where I wasn't as reliant on my parents, where I was able to have a bit more steady, consistent income, um, and just sort of took a look at what are my other options.

Like if not [00:12:00] this then what? And I think that. A tough, tough point for anyone who is looking to not necessarily say goodbye to, but just like move away from something that they thought was their answer and their future. And, um, I've really struggled with feeling like, okay, if I pivot from this, am I giving up on my dreams?

Like, am I a quitter? Am I. Giving up too soon. Am I, I had this desire to like, prove people wrong. Who said I couldn't do it. And I was like, am I succumbing to that external pressure of like, yeah, you were right. I can't do it. There's the sense of like defeat. Um, and I don't think at the time I felt like, well saying no to this, the saying yes to something else.

I sort of approached it from a place of like, I'm not good enough. Um, and I think that took a while to heal from, and to get over and. Ultimately, I was really fortunate in that we had a family friend who worked for Scholastic, the children's [00:13:00] publishing company. And so through some introductions, I was able to have an informational meeting with her.

And I was really excited about that because in addition to theater, writing and editing had been such a huge part of my life, storytelling, reading, I loved books and my family in addition to being. You know, supportive was also very involved in the education space. My dad's parents ran a school for developmentally disabled kids in upstate New York.

My dad was, um, you know, he ran the school. My mom was a teacher for a bit. They both had degrees in psychology. And so, you know, we joke in my family, I'm the black sheep, because I'm the only one who doesn't have a psychology degree. Everyone else did. Or does. That's sort of moving into this space where Scholastic was so focused on education and literacy and getting kids to love to read that all felt like an incredible sense of alignment.

So it was sort of, it made the transition easier. I think, because I was going from one thing that I was so deeply [00:14:00] passionate about to something else that I was equally but differently passionate about. And I think that, um, that eased the. The pain a little bit. I think had I gone straight from like saying goodbye to my dream of being an actor and then moved into like financial services.

I probably would have been, it would have probably been a rockier transition, but this was like going from one passion to explore another passion. So I feel really lucky. It panned out that way, but that was also a lot to do with luck and timing and nothing that I like worked hard to achieve in that

David Fano: sense.

There's a great Ted talk on like manufacturing luck, which I think it's one thing to kind of attribute things to luck, but it's also things that I think important to seize opportunities when they present themselves. Um, and in what I'm hearing. Yeah, well, one, your parents did a little bit of career hedging, which was awesome.[00:15:00]

Uh, you know, having that wisdom, uh, and giving, you know, sort of equipping you or prodding you to, uh, pursue a couple of. Um, crafts or, you know, have those there in your back pocket, but then also, you know, taking, you know, leveraging the network and the relationships and you know, how those things accrue over time.

And so it feels to me like instead of like running away from something, what helped you do it is run towards something which is this new mission, this new, um, connection to a passion. And so once you. Once you kind of got there. What was it like, like crafting what your day to day was, you know, from, especially I think the, the earlier you are in your career, the more like tactical or functional your role is, right?

Because you're not leading and setting strategy, you got to like roll up your sleeves and do stuff. And over time you get that level up. So I'm curious, how, how did you get to shape, like what that first job was when. [00:16:00] Took a pause. I'll call it cause you're still young and you can still act. And, um, uh, but when you put a pause on the, on the more acting side of your

Lia Zneimer: career in the theater.

Yeah. So it's interesting. I ended up my first role at Scholastic was on the corporate events and productions team, which actually was a really nice transition from. In theater and doing production assistant work because we were essentially taking, or I was taking those skills that I had learned on set or on stage, and essentially applying them to a corporate environments.

We were producing all of these webinars and live stage productions and events for the company. Um, but really utilizing a lot of those same skills that we I'd honed over the past. A couple of years.

David Fano: Can you talk about that a little bit? Cause I feel like a lot of people don't give themselves credit with how transferable their skills are.

I'm kind of, of the belief. That way more skills are transferable than we like to believe. Um, [00:17:00] and so that's a great example where the context is so. But the actual things you were doing were, were quite similar, they might've even had different names in terms of like how you would describe the skill, but in terms of what you were doing very, very

Lia Zneimer: similar.

Yeah, definitely. I think one of the things that stands out to me most, and I really, I love to retell this story is when I was looking at the job description for this particular role at Scholastic, it was an entry-level. Do you know, production assistant role. And in reading the JD, I remember this bullet bullet point that said you'll be responsible for changing out the displays in the ER.

And I was like, I have no idea what an ERC is. And I was Googling, I was researching. I was, I was like, you know what? I don't think I should apply for this role because I don't know what an ERC is. And I was so focused on this one term in this one bullet point. Among all of these other bullet points that just like jumped out to me where I was so focused on what, I didn't know, think goodness, I applied.

It turns out ERC is like [00:18:00] an internal acronym that they use to describe their educational resource center. So there was like a very good chance that I may not have applied at all, just because I was so concerned about the, like what ifs of not knowing how to do something a hundred percent. Um, and to this day I actually really struggled with.

The transferable skills and recognizing them in myself, not so much with others, it's very easy for me to look at my peers or my former colleagues and be like, oh, you did this, this and that. Like, you would absolutely be able to utilize those skills. I do think though, there are some that are really foundational, whether you learn them like in college or right out of college in early jobs.

You know, they're specific to production work. Like sure. There were some very jargon-y technical things, but ultimately what was most transferable was like a willingness to dig up my sleeves and do the work, no matter how small the job was to not balk at being asked to do something that was. Bizarre or out of scope to just being like, willing to say yes [00:19:00] to these strange asks.

I remember once as a production assistant, we were, I was tasked with picking up a goat carcass from a butcher because we needed it. And I was like, honestly, nothing else I do in my career will be as weird as like driving in New York city when I'm not a good parallel Parker, figuring out how to navigate like a butcher shop to get a goat.

If I can do that, I can probably navigate whatever other thing is being asked of me. Um, so this like open mindset, willingness to say yes. And also I have always, you know, the love of reading and attention to detail came back in a really. Helpful way in this case where like, I'm curious, I love to learn. I love to immerse myself in what I'm doing and whether that's reading full scripts to gather full context or reading emails from incoming clients or putting together proposals like those strong reading, writing, communication skills.

Those are all incredibly transferable, no matter what industry you're in. Um, and I'd also say like people say. Being [00:20:00] willing to collaborate and come into things with like a team player mentality. I think those are, you know, not like hard skills we're necessarily taught to believe are like the most critical when it comes to landing a job, but they'll probably serve you well across multiple industries.

Um, and I'm so thankful that I. Decided to take that plunge and apply for something that I didn't necessarily on paper think I was qualified for, because that ended up being the launching pad into this whole like communications part of my career that I didn't even know was coming. And I think that's another thing about my time at Scholastic was there's just so much out there that I didn't know about.

Like I had no idea I'd never in college would have been like, I want to do corporate events or like, I want to do event production. I can from like this pre-professional world where everyone was very focused on going into finance, going into med school, [00:21:00] applying for law school. There were really not a lot of other people being like, I want to do something creative or I want to do something that, you know, in the communications field, like it was, I didn't even really know communications and marketing.

Was a function of a business, to be honest, like I'm sure. I'd heard of it, but like, until I was actually in it day-to-day I was like, oh,

David Fano: so you were at Scholastic for a, for a little while. Things like three to four years, four years. And so I'm curious, what was, um, what was that for you? What was that, that moment of the kind of plateau that resulted in change and then, you know, another, what I think, you know, uh, was a, a pretty big crew.

Yeah.

Lia Zneimer: So I think for me, it actually was a bit unexpected, but, you know, I was quite happy at Scholastic. Loved my team, really enjoyed the work I was doing day to day felt like things were a bit slower pace given that it was a very traditional, almost a hundred year old company that [00:22:00] just had a very set way of doing things.

And. Tend to move. You know, I am pretty ambitious and I tend to move quickly and the pace wasn't necessarily the best fit and yet still overall loved it. Um, and then actually, unfortunately my dad got sick. He was diagnosed with lung cancer in may of 2014 and we knew things probably were not good. And there was this moment, I think really his illness.

Put things in perspective in terms of what really matters. And to me work just suddenly did not matter anymore. Everything that mattered to me was Stanley based and getting as much time with him as possible. Um, I went through sort of a phase of thinking about, should I leave New York? Should I move to where he was to be physically present so that I could be nearby in case he needed additional care?

Um, we were really fortunate that he had great medical care and he had a support system, but I wanted to be present. And it sort of dimmed the light on. Anything professional for a bit. I was like, this just isn't what [00:23:00] matters to me. Um, so my dad ended up passing away in November of 2014, like six months, right after his diagnosis.

And I think that was sort of the, it was a really tough time all around. Um, I think grief is difficult, no matter how you spin it. And then when grief in the workplace is something that's really complicated. You know, not a lot of folks really talk about, but it's really tough to be grieving while you're also trying to do your day-to-day responsibilities and keep the wheels moving.

And I, at that point just felt a bit checked out and it was like, you know what? I think a change of pace would be good. And up until my dad's last. Night. I remember him asking me about, like, did you ask for a raise yet? Like, did you ask, did you push for that promotion yet? And I think I sort of knew in my heart of hearts, that stagnation was not something he was fond of.

And I think I was like, you know what, I've done four years here. Like, it's time for me to start looking for something else. But I think really, like what would make [00:24:00] him proud? What would make him? I don't know how much of it was for me and how much was like me wanting his. Approval and some sort of like sign from the universe kind of way.

Um, so that said, I started job hunting and my sister had actually started at WIWORK in 2013. She was one of the first hundred employees. And she was like, you know, if you're interested, there is a social media manager role. That's open here. I'm happy to like, introduce you to the team. I was like, It couldn't hurt.

I was throwing like spaghetti at the wall to see what would stick applying for some social media roles, some not social media roles. It was like Sharon interview just like would be wonderful. So again, like just saying yes to this, and at the time it was like, I have no interest in real estate. Like I don't, my dad had been in real estate for years that residential and I wasn't something that had like piqued my interest per se.

But then this idea of like community and collaboration and people being stronger together. Um, [00:25:00] empowering entrepreneurs to do meaningful work and like be able to tell these members stories. I was like, huh, like that is actually super compelling. So I, what started as just like a, I guess I'll go in and like chat with the team, turned into a really quick interview process.

And then I joined the WeWork team in April of 2015.

David Fano: That's, you know, that's a clear like inflection point, right? That was a start-up you went from a hundred year old company to like a two year old company now. I mean, they were thinking they were five years old at that point, but still relatively, you know, a lot less and a lot less structure also at the rate at which was growing like new things every day.

Um, No. So how did sort of, how did you think about that and kind of like your role there and navigating that place and, you know, management and all sorts of things.

Lia Zneimer: When I started at, we work, I, they had someone else doing social media. She also was doing a few other roles. We often did it. We work, we wear many hats, so it was an exciting opportunity to [00:26:00] sort of be the first full-time.

There had been social media. Prior to my tenure there, but like the first real, like, This is my focus. This is my area of expertise. Like let's just dive in. And it was a really small team at the time. I think the brand team had like 10 to 12 people on it. And so within three months I found myself also doing brand marketing and working on PR and communications.

Cause we didn't really have a, we were working with external agencies that we needed some additional support there in hindsight, like I look back and I'm like, it kind of feels like a blur. I was essentially the only person doing social media from. April of 2015 when I joined to June of 2017, um, April of 2017, actually it was a two year chunk of being kind of a one man, one woman band.

And I, I look back and I'm like, I don't know how I did it. Like, I don't think I slept. Um, I think the standards that I hold myself to. Not necessarily [00:27:00] the most reasonable. And then I think that coupled with this hypergrowth state, it was constantly figuring out like, okay, where and how do we take this like central core content strategy and apply it to all of these countries, all of these languages.

Um, especially in regions where, you know, we want to grow our brand awareness. We want to grow our membership, but we also don't have a social media person on the ground. Like how do we gather content in real time from these dozens of markets, how do we put out content in a way that feels. Holistic to the brand and respectful of various cultures.

It was a fascinating challenge to be presented with. And, um, you know, I feel so grateful that I got to learn from the team, but there was definitely a lot of change all the time. Um, I am very, actually one of the few people I know who stayed on the same team that we work throughout their tenure. So the.

The social media team bounced around a [00:28:00] little. We started on the brand team. Then we went to marketing and we went to public affairs and we went back to marketing. I stayed with social in that five years that I was with the company. So, um, there was this real sense of like ownership of this being like this baby that we had helped form and create and put out into the world and then kind of watching it grow through its awkward teenage years.

Um, find a little bit more maturity, but, um, the first few years in particular were very much like all hands on deck.

David Fano: You ended up becoming the sort of global director of social media for the company.

Lia Zneimer: Yes. Yeah. So a lot of growth throughout the years. Um, Kind of gradual promotions, um, from step to step and then different scopes of responsibility added in.

And then, you know, as there were certain heads of social media that were brought on to run the team, I would report into them as sort of their right hand person helping to navigate and manage day to day, everything that was happening within the team. So by the time I left, we work in may of [00:29:00] 2020. Um, I was the running head of social work.

David Fano: We'll we'll wrap with this, you know, I feel like when people give this like grand retrospective career advice, it's like, I wish I would've spent more time doing this, or I should have done that. It's like, well, that's kind of easy to say because you kind of earn the right to be there. And if you had it to do over, would you really have, because you might not have had the success.

So I'm curious, you know, experiencing what you've experienced at one of, I'd say like the most epic, uh, sort of business stories of the last 10. Um, like what, what advice would you have some, for someone, you know, thinking about who's got ambition who, you know, has kind of trying to gain clarity on what they want to do is sort of trying to shape it.

What's that kind of tactical advice that you would have wished someone would have given you, like maybe when you were starting at WeWork,

Lia Zneimer: you don't have to have it all figured out, like, take that pressure off yourself to have the. [00:30:00] To have a clear sense of what it is you want next. I think there's so much focus sometimes on what we want next, that like we're missing a lot of what's happening in the now.

So I think focusing on like, how can you do your very best work in this moment in a way that you'll be proud of yourself, but you will drive yourself crazy. Like you won't work to the point that your it's detrimental to your health or your wellbeing. Like how can you find that balance? Doing the best you can within reason.

Um, and one of the pieces of advice my dad always liked to give was make yourself indispensable. And I think it's, you know, at this point I've heard it from many other folks as well, but at the time I thought it was this precious nugget of wisdom that he had given me. Um, but I do, I think I would say that to others as well, where I think having a good attitude and being open to taking on things outside of your like written scope.

Having the confidence to set boundaries, to know what's best for [00:31:00] yourself in terms of like your mental health and wellbeing. Um, I think that's sort of the sweet spot. So. Don't be afraid to set boundaries, but also don't be afraid to say yes.

David Fano: Awesome. Well, how can people follow you hear from you find you online.

Uh, what's the best place for people to hear more of these amazing ideas of yours and some of the other cool things that you've got going.

Lia Zneimer: Thank you. So my social media handle is my name across all platforms. It's L I a Z N E I M E R. very creative. I know. And then this is also going to be a shameless plug to please follow the teal social media accounts on all channels.

They are at teal underscore HQ. Um, and thank you so much for the conversation. This is so.

David Fano: And you have an awesome newsletter that I know right now, you're busy too, but you started the market, her, uh, which hopefully you have some time to get to, but that's also an incredible initiative, uh, that you've got going.

Lia Zneimer: Um, so that is best to follow it. The market heard [00:32:00] dot C O online. You can find all our social media platforms sign up for the newsletter TBD. It's been a bit irregular. I will admit, um, we'll kind of see what the future has in store, but yes, the market her is also on Instagram. If you'd like to follow.

Which

David Fano: is a super awesome project, super aligned with what we're trying to do at T will help people land jobs, and those, you know, a big part of why I was so excited for, for Leah to join the team. So Leah, thanks so much. Um, or this is the first one we recorded. It may not be the first one you hear, but I want to thank Leah so much for doing this and, um, you know, stay tuned for more incredible career path stories.

Um, every career is incredible and every. Such cool little moments that we can all learn from. So Leah, thanks for sharing yours today

Lia Zneimer: for having me.

David Fano: And that's it for this episode of Non Linear. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe, share, and rate us wherever you listen to podcasts.|

You can learn more about Teal in our website tealhq.com, or follow us on social media @teal_hq. Thanks again, and please join us again to keep hearing about how we make decisions that shape our careers.